[Game Thread] Chapter Five: Everything Changes

[Blue]

Nevh watched everyone's reaction to the idea intently, herself being sort of alright with it. That was only with the hope that the Saviour wouldn't refuse to have the daggers used and let Aheka crumble with the imbalance. If that was true.
When Tiaan offers to make duplicates, however, she stands right up.
"Clever, but way too dangerous. There would be no way to differentiate them and if someone somewhere gets the funny idea of swapping them and giving fakes to every Saviours and keep the real ones to himself. We would murder our volunteers in vain and begin a very unproductive hunt for who betrayed us. Zera would thrive on such a diversion."

On Zilira's query, she decided that she should probably give a reminder of the situation, along with her personal opinion. She seemed resolute enough.
"For the selection process, I'll remind everyone that we already have two volunteers; Lekan Alyyrik and myself.
Both of us have little more than contractual affiliation to Halva and its king. Lekan is a Kashyyn that would likely pass on his desire to protect and also happens to be the person best suited to neutralize the hybrid under Zera's hold. I am from a nation famous or infamous for its international neutrality and probably for having little to no ambition to speak of past preventing others from altering their way of life. I was formed a druid,was instructed on the maintenance of balance and I believe myself to be a Sei in spirit, at least. If all goes well I should give the world another Theofan.

"We have our flaws, but we are here and more than willing. If the daggers can be used before changing hands more often than is necessary, that would be ideal, especially now that all our enemies might be rushing for them at least by the end of this meeting, that these enemies could possibly guess who our ideal volunteers might be before we finally agree to select them (and probably take care of them), and that we two ourselves may now also be targeted by them to make sure we are theirs or out of the way in case we do end up being chosen.
We two are likely not the most ideal choices, but we are the safest."

[SpatulaOdoom]

"I, and Kala, may be able to identify the daggers based on our seer abilities." Morgan shifts so that he can see Nevh. "I do think that both yourself and Lekan Alyyryk of the Kashyn are good candidates and should be considered, but the dangers of being hasty are just as drastic as those of taking too long given just how long term an impact that decision is going to have. If you look at it from the perspective of the people who just found out about all this, what assurance do any of them have that you and Alyyryk haven't been muddled by those self same enemies already? Till now, the only people involved in the whole business has been us."

”As for how to decide, I came prepared for this one.” Reaching out one lanky arm Morgan just manages to get his fingers on the notebook he'd left atop the table without disturbing his passenger. He flips to a page marked with a small strip of black silk. ”Should we choose to hold a simple vote or some form of lottery we would need to figure out who could vote or put forth candidates.

Of all possible candidates there are:
Sixteen terrestrial nations, plus the Children in the Dark should you choose to consider them a nation rather than a religion or organization.
Many gods and their associated religions, with The Seven Saviors, the four Paragons, The Wolf twins, Fisali, Tiaan, Shedeth, Alainn, Coiya, and Jester. The Fiendish Pantheon numbers twelve by common account, which includes Inanna and Deimos.
There are six major Kinships and eleven minor, which can be expanded almost indefinitely depending on how you define the term Kinship.
And of major organizations or powers that are none of the above we have the Sei, the Paladins of the Trinity, the Darkheart society, Shade, Samael,-” Morgan gestures at Ghost should anyone be uncertain who that is, ”-and I suppose Kala and Zilira should be included in this group since neither have any organized religion of their own.” Yet.

The mage flips to the next page and flicks the sheet with a fingernail. ”Now, those are all possible entities I could think of. Upon making this list I did run into several difficulties and potential problems.
I think it's safe to say that we would not have Asharte and the fiendish pantheon involved in the decision making, so we can cross them out. Except, what about Inanna, and even Deimos? Both are part of the active local political landscape and both make their home in Ahkea itself, whether we like it or not. Both have even been represented here today, though only one by invitation. So we both need to at least consider the possibility. Along a similar line we have the Paragons. All four have been captured, and only Sarlorne and Airis have anything akin to a high priest, Archgate, or someone that could speak and vote on their behalf.

The problem with the Kinships is that they are technically vassals of the nations. Some of them, such as the Quen and the Rudaa, are so closely bound to their nations identity that if you removed them from the picture the nation would be all but unrecognizable. To consider them a separate entity from their nation is questionable. I honestly would write them in as part of their respective nation rather than give them individual votes.

In a similar vein some of the people listed are questionable. Is the Darkheart Society large, organized, and influential enough to merit their own vote? I don't know enough about them to say. The Paladins of the Trinity are more of a set of smaller organizations and individuals than a group with a single leader and guiding principal. Should they get a vote? How would they do so? Should Coiya be considered separate from the Children, Zilira and Halva, Shade and Xolar?
The Seven Saviors would represent a significant power bloc with eight combined votes should Alainn have her own vote in addition to her patron's. There are a few smaller potential blocs like Shedeth and Ikra, Halva and Shali.”
Morgan closes the book and lightly tosses it back onto the table.
”So. Thoughts?”

[Blue]

Since it had been formulated as a question, she answered.
"If I worked on this case close with you, there are several obvious factors that prove I am not working against our common objectives. I do not think they need to be stated."

As he mentions every potential candidates, Nevh tried to stay focused and stoically listened until Quall and the Rudaa were mentioned as examples of groups sharing a single vote, at which point she grinned with indignation.
From an outsider's perspective, maybe!
"...excuse me?"
When attention would redirect, she'd go on.
"We have different laws, our communities are for the most part disconnected from the rest of the country, we have our own independent council to administer our own lands and people, we are not even physically built the same way and you believe we should count as the same vote group!?"

After Morgan would later ask for thoughts, Nevh would wait a little to hear what the others had to say before doing some noise of her own.
"Getting all these people to agree on a vote is going to take a very long time. Getting them to find volunteers of their convenience that are truly willing and do not have someone forcing their hand might also take a while. Especially since new candidates could restart many groups' entire selection plans and that being late or otherwise delaying their vote would probably be used as a strategy. Selection by election introduces a very complex system that will likely end up with someone's power network securing him his choice as the victor. All that pretty much guaranteeing that it would naturally take a very long time.

"That said, I for one would greatly appreciate if a fair time limit could be agreed on. Mostly because until that time comes I will probably have to disappear to avoid someone doing me a favor by getting me killed and it would be nice to have this dealt with before Zera finally brings his army in, which appears to be imminent, by the way. That is assuming we are not going by lottery; it would no doubt be much faster but would also mean that we are seriously considering abiding to fortune's caprices by possibly giving Deimos his very own hybrid."

[SpatulaOdoom]

”Not to me, no, but I'm not the one who needs to be convinced now am I?”
Morgan is glad that Nevh chooses to comment on the Kinship conundrum. He nods enthusiastically when she mentions imposing time constraints on the whole thing. That would be pretty much required. Nothing like this had ever happened before so without imposing limitations things might never get done.
”While I have a better understanding of other cultures and lands than most I can hardly claim to be all-knowing, thus the discussion. The Rudaa function as protectors and lawkeepers of the Quall. In return for their special responsibilities they receive special considerations by the Quallish government, receiving the right to have their own vassals and lands to manage and falling under a different set of laws than the common folk. To me this sounds essentially like how a noble class works in other countries, with some exceptions. They are barred from certain positions of power, as the Kinship already has monolithic influence and power in the country matched perhaps only by the Aileen and Quen's position in their respective countries
In the end however the Rudaa are citizens of Quall correct? They are still beholden to the laws of the land as set out by the Quallish rulers. The responsibility of a ruler includes speaking for his or her people, all of them, and making decisions on behalf of them.
The Dragonblazes are nobles, and as such fall under different laws than commoners. They are physically different from the common people, though not unique. They are powerful land-owners who have the right to conduct their affairs and manage their servants and lands as they see fit so long as they obey those laws of the land that apply to them. Should they have a separate vote from Halva itself?”
Morgan holds up a hand.
”Please do not be offended, I am simply trying to outline problems that crop up. Ultimately people will have to be cut out of the decision making process, it is impossible for every reasoning being in our universe to be involved in this decision. The fewer voting members, the faster and simpler the decision making process will be. So then it falls to us here to try to figure out who can be cut out without actually loosing a voice. Even without a separate vote the Rudaan kinship still has their massive influence within Quall and still have the ability to influence the vote. If we were to deny, say the Children in the Dark, who are numerous, powerful, and themselves should speak for all those still imprisoned by the fiends then there would conceivably be nobody else to speak for them.”

[Blue]

She shook her head slowly.
"Not quite. The similarities are present but unlike your noble classes these different laws are not established by the nation's ruler. They are decided by our own councils. We have influence in the administration of Quall as nobles do but we are ultimately independent of it. Unlike your nobles, if we cause injustices, we are handled by our own people. The rest of Quall has no say nor authority on us past the pillar agreement of how we are to coexist, which is why my position as an ambassador is practical as I am able to represent both groups."

When he tried to soothe her she held her hand in front of her almost apologetically.
"I do understand, but you are the one who stated that Kinships should have their own vote. If our vote is to be shared with another group, may it be the same for every other cases even remotely similar to our situation. Many religious group you mentioned are primarily based in a single country as well. If the nation is to speak for us, then the nation should speak for them all as well."

She paused, then added; "The Children certainly need a vote of their own. If they are to settle in Aheka and become a nation of their own, they certainly have their say in this."

[Makenshi]

Malhas snorts at the mention of the religions getting a vote. "As Nevh said, some of those religions are more popular and widespread than others, even among the Saviours, and what about the Faithless? Do they not get a vote of their own just because they don't have an organised church even if they're more numerous than some religions? If the Saviours are going to be the guardians of the daggers then it'd make sense that they remain neutral in the decision of who it goes to."

"Surprisingly, I agree with Malhas." Mirik adds. "If we start including religious organisation then we'll have to draw an arbitrary line on what constitutes an organised religion of sufficient size. If a nation has a particularly strong following of a particular Deity then they would presumably have a voice in that nation's governance."

"How about giving each nation, including the Children as a nation, a vote on the matter and allowing them to nominate a single volunteer towards the vote itself." Vulcar suggests.

Mirik shakes his head sadly. "I'm not sure the latter will work, since each nation will likely just vote for their own representative."

~MTWC

[Blue]

"It depends on what this election is thriving to achieve. Are we trying to cut even on the satisfaction of the population of Aheka as a whole on those to be chosen or are we trying to satisfy every group of influence in Aheka? Demography is much more important in the former. We'd need to distribute votes by the size of the population with each vote being carried out by a representative of the biggest groups of their region. In the later we'd need to determine which factions of a given size can be merged and which cannot, and give a vote to those that remain."

She thought for an instant. "Otherwise election by majority is possible, as it works in most councils. Take a representative of each nation and put them in a room. Very much as we do now. The choice is then made by majority until an agreement is made. This way we cannot all simply go for our representative."

A bit later, during the development of the selection process, she would drop down another potential clause of import.
"Perhaps it would also be wise to agree on a measure of urgency. If Zera gets his way our efforts to get ideal sacrifices would become less than useful and potentially have even greater consequences as we would have given him cause to go after the Saviours in order to further increase his power base.
So... measures of urgency. Two new hybrids sharing our interests would be wonderful, but one would probably be sufficient, so if Zera were to strike tomorrow or even later today, or at any other time before this election is achieved, having at least one hybrid to neutralize Zera's own would really help. As such Lekan could be accepted by all of us here as a choice of emergency. The other may be elected by us all more appropriately within the time limit agreed upon."

She'd turn to Alyryyk.
"I hope you don't mind if I speak of you this way. No offense intended."

[SpatulaOdoom]

”Nevh. I didn't say the kinships should or should not have their own votes. I listed what I saw as all the major powers and organizations and some potential problems that cropped up with some of those organizations receiving votes should it become a voting matter.

To continue the discussion regarding the Rudaa. The question your commentary brings up is whether or not the Rudaa Kinship constitutes a separate allied country or if they are in fact citizens of Quall given a large degree of autonomy. Does your ruling council answer to the crown at all? Who speaks for you on the international scale? We may have to update our maps.”

Originally Posted by Nevh

”Many religious group you mentioned are primarily based in a single country as well. If the nation is to speak for us, then the nation should speak for them all as well."

He drums his fingers on the arm of his chair, considering exactly how to order his thoughts.
”Essentially you are correct. I listed the various religions because those who do not live within Ahkea have their own realms on the outer planes, with their own lands and their own peoples, mostly in the form of various outsiders. In addition it depends on whether you consider someone speaking for others as a spiritual leader and as a political leader as separate issues. Finally the gods themselves have no citizenship that I'm aware of.”
Mirik suggesting that the gods should act as neutral parties stunned Morgan, knocking him completely off his train of thought. It certainly hadn't been his expectation that they should choose to bow out of such a decision. After a long moment he collects his thoughts and continues.
”Umm. Personally I don't give a damn about anybody's satisfaction with whatever decisions are made. My concern is with finding candidates and creating hybrids who's own mindset and concerns are for the long term good of the universe and it's people as a whole over any selfish or partisan concerns. It's why I pushed for this to become an international issue rather than simply making the decision and presenting you all with a fait accompli.
Once idea I was considering floating is to put the decision in the hands of the Sei, as that seems to be exactly their stated intent, the good of the many over the good of the few.”

ooc Ran out of time for posting. Still got 9/10 of what was to say down.

[Blue]

"We never requested to be officially considered as a separate country but you could say that our territory within Quall are lands within which Quall has no authority. I guess you could see it on a larger scale as if the leader of one nation of Aheka was to represent us all in this world. Another nation than this world representative's would still be considered to be part of this larger body, Aheka, while still being independent of that representative's authority on most regards within its own territory. This alliance and good relationship between our respective ruling bodies makes the preservation of our identity and lifestyle possible while keeping everyone satisfied with the way things are being administered. We have a strong voice in Quall for a reason, not unlike the influence a country would have on another that sees it as an important ally. We are not bound to answer to the crown but we generally do when it requests our assistance for a given situation, mostly because it usually concerns us as well - but you'd understand why they would try to avoid resorting to asking anything of us if they can avoid it. It is not good for the Quallish people to get the impression that we are more involved than we need to be."

The last question made her smirk.
"Yours truly, but that is exceptional. We do not want an international voice. We generally really don't want anybody bothering us, nor do we want anyone to get updated maps. I was ordered not to speak of the Rudaa as part of my diplomatic efforts more than necessity required, which is why I'll be steering this conversion back on topic now. Perhaps later, if the Rudaa still happens to have an international figure."

She saw the inclusion of the religious organization among those getting a vote more as a logical reasoning in the attempt to get everyone happy with the result but was glad to see it stricken out into a set of neutral parties.
When Morgan clarified the objective of the possible voting system, she eased back into her chair, looking a little disappointed.
"Not to sound condescending but if you're looking to get the best long term candidates you're probably not putting the decision in the right hands. As is it would mostly end up with a choice that sort of satisfies everyone right now, rather than the world itself until time's end. I'm sure many of us would vote with theses interests as the primary concern but realistically a great many of us just won't. You'd be best served to instead ask the most Sei-minded individuals, ideally those that lived long enough to get a strong and accurate feel for what matters in the long term. I mean, asking the experts on the subject instead of a great collection of unqualified but very important people sounds like a much better plan. There is a reason we represent our organizations and not, you know, the world."

[SpatulaOdoom]

Originally Posted by nevh

"Not to sound condescending but if you're looking to get the best long term candidates you're probably not putting the decision in the right hands. As is it would mostly end up with a choice that sort of satisfies everyone right now, rather than the world itself until time's end. I'm sure many of us would vote with theses interests as the primary concern but realistically a great many of us just won't. You'd be best served to instead ask the most Sei-minded individuals, ideally those that lived long enough to get a strong and accurate feel for what matters in the long term. I mean, asking the experts on the subject instead of a great collection of unqualified but very important people sounds like a much better plan. There is a reason we represent our organizations and not, you know, the world."

The corner of Morgan's lips turn up in a slightly lopsided smile. ”It is precisely because of long term thinking that this issue has been brought to the greater world rather than keeping it to the secrets and shadows or engaging in the type of hasty unilateral actions you push for.
Nobody represents the entire world. Some might claim to, and some may relish the idea of doing so unopposed, but currently the rest of the world would not agree with that statement.”
It was also because of long term thinking that these people had been brought here and asked to consider and discuss such a weighty matter as a group. In Morgan's mind Zera was a threat that wouldn't, couldn't, last. His methods and means were unsustainable in the long run. He'd made too many enemies and revealed himself to be too controlling and destructive to have allies rather than pawns. In the future thought there might be other threats, other issues that would take more than just individual nations or the seven saviors to deal with. And in the end a greater sense of cooperation would benefit in smaller, subtler ways too. Ways that would show up not as grand proclomations or official alliances, but in the perceptions of the common man.
”Yes, perhaps we should discuss the issue with people experienced and expected to lead and care for large groups of other people. Ones who are meant to put the good of the many over the good of the few. You know, like... monarches and religious leaders. Hmmm. Perhaps if we were to do this though we should make sure to exclude those who have proven themselves to have selfish motives in the past such as. Well... Deimos I guess was turned away. Oh and Kaeyin wasn't invited. Before we were aware he'd been killed that is.” He gestures at the people in the room. ”If not these people, them whom? After all even deciding who decides is a decision. Who's qualified to make that decision? No madam. I'd rather ask around and see if anyone has any brilliant insights and ideas.”

[Blue]

Her face darkened.
"Harsh accusations - being obliterated isn't a state I particularly look forward to despite the urgency. I won't claim that any one group represents the entire world but some have a more worldly perspective and seek the betterment of more than the one nation they hail from while remaining neutral in most respects. I certainly would believe such a group of people to be able to carry out such a decision with the ideals you shared in mind despite any corruption that would seek to influence them. This is hardly unilateral. The Watchers of Fisali, the Sei, Samael and perhaps Shade (if he feels like it) and even the Saviours and the Twins could be assembled (but not their clergy). As beings whom already put themselves on the line for our future in this world, perhaps their concerns for us would not be clouded by their own religious prestige, but some knows them better than I do.

"While monarchs are indeed meant and perhaps even competent in putting the good of the many before those of the few, knowing politics, the many are often their many and the few are usually those who get the lion's share so that the many may sort of prosper. It is the principle of nobility. And it works. But to accomplish that objective, I feel these administration skills are less relevant than the vision of the heart. The nations are qualified to make that decision, as well as it belongs to those currently in possession of the daggers and it may be carried out by rule of majority. Deciding who decides is perhaps the easiest burden to bear between us all.
You keep asking around. You call for insights and now you have mine. I shall still comply to our collective will so please try not to sound as if I was working against your efforts."

She had said her piece and now had no intentions of manifesting herself until that one topic would reach its conclusion.

[Makenshi]

"Perhaps it would be best to retire for a few hours to consult your home nations?" Mirik suggests. "There has been a lot of information here, and several suggestions for how to proceed." There is a mumble of agreement at that. "Before everyone leaves though, I would add to Ambassador Nevh's suggestion that the simplest solution would be to make those who nominate others be different to those that vote. Such as by having the rulers nominate a single person from their nation while the Sei and other neutral parties vote on the final decision, or vice versa."

Zilira's voice slips into their heads. "We're to meet in the throne room to discuss matters. It seems my son has some...interesting news."

~MTWC

[SpatulaOdoom]

Originally Posted by Nevh

”You call for insights and now you have mine. I shall still comply to our collective will, so please try not to sound as if I was working against your efforts."

”Fair enough. We simply have differing opinions on the relative importance of some things.” Not that Nevh and Morgan having different opinions was anything new. At this point it would probably be a minor miracle if they didn't.

When Vulcar suggests a brief recess to give the delegates a bit of time to mull things over has Morgan's full approval. Something he indicates with a nod. He and Nevh and the rest had had a couple of days, two whole days, to consider the situation and solidify their thoughts that the deligates hadn't. Besides, they would probably require the consent of their respective rulers and gods and whatnot before they could even start to make anything like a binding agreement for something on this scale.

Morgan rolls his eyes at the news of news from Zilira. ”Heavens forbid our lives should be boring for more than a minute or two in a row.” Hopefully it would be a bit of good news for a change in stead of earth shattering revelations or the death of somebody or another.

The mage helps the goddess out of his lap and adjusts himself before standing up. ”Darling, I'm sorry but I'm going to have to insist you take your own chair when we return or I may find myself distracted.” And maybe not able to stand upright without embarrassment.

[Makenshi]

"Such a shame. You make a very comfortable chair."

It was easy for them to get lost in the crowd that was leaving and being escorted out of the Palace, the winding corridors even allowing them to seem to split up before meeting up again in the Hall of Kings that lead up to Vulcar's throne room, where the guards on duty were ready to let them in.

Inside were the familiar figures of Didina, Misa and not Lucius the Gender-benderLucien, but also three unfamiliar figures. A human woman with red eyes and a Drow woman with green eyes, both of which had the look of Children in the Dark, and next to Lucien, another Elernan man.

OOC I'll let everyone introduce themselves more fully in their initial post, this this is their first initial meeting. Also, the order of arrival is up to whoever posts firsts, though Zilira would be walking with Morgan.

~MTWC

[Blue]

Nevh wasted no time and stood to put a firm hand upon her sister's shoulder.
"Follow the others. I'll be with you soon enough."
Mrith replied bitterly.
"Yeah. You go do your spy business."
She made sharp turns and made for the door, hoping to catch up with Mirik to maybe get his opinion on how this whole mess affected dragonkind and whether they should act on it or just let it flow as some other trivial human issue.

It was difficult to imagine that someone in the king's court might not know her. Those in the know would be aware that Nevh had received a sudden surge in popularity when she became ambassador and inspired the vision of a Quall finally ripe and open for exploitation. The excitement died slowly as she had proven herself to be intransigent in business, if not cruel.
The biggest international Quallish projects under way did not even involve Halva, most deals being sealed with Shali, another of the world's most Long story short, she trolled everybody.xenophobic countries.
Despite Qualls' tendency to keep a low profile she did not fail to heartily get involved in the political playground. The impression she usually leaves is one of stern professionalism, of being headstrong, a little socially awkward and yet curiously alluring (though most of it felt more due to her cultural background or part of the general impression one gets of foreign mercenaries).

Nevh herself was a short woman of obvious Quallish and Rudaa descent. Those whom had seen many Rudaa would notice that her skin has a slight olive tone to it that is more pronounced in those whose Aud is particularly strong while others would just stack that over the rest of her exotic traits. Her hairstyle this time is partially curled and untied to be place over her right shoulder. They are dyed with he usual blue and she wears red makeup around her eyes similar. A Quallish symbol for "Resolve" is skillfully painted on her forehead.
Her eyes gleam with a pulsing azure, giving hints of the driving force contained behind her tired expression.

She stands casually in a posture that betrays her martial training and her musculature further suggests that she is physically capable.
Her garbs while quite formal seem adapted for combat in the cut of a battle dress, black in colour with teal edges and linings that displayed another Quallish sigil on her back that meant "Awareness. She had the same royal purple shawl she had been wearing ever since the Grand Gathering.

As Nevh entered the room, her eyes eased on Didina and Misa briefly before hardening upon the strangers. They stayed on the Drow dressed up as one of the Children.
"So. What is this about? News on the Drow delegation already?"

Her voice was gentle but those with good at reading people would easily get that the pace of her speech and the shape of her smile were those of someone who didn't really want to be there.