[Mechanics] OOC PLAYTESTING Discussions

[Kael Vonrik]

yay, i found a good use for summon mmonster 3, using it to summon up to 5 summon monster 1's ^_^

[Fil kearney]

i know. crazy, ain't it?

[Kael Vonrik]

If a spell can be cast as an immediate action, can you then also recharge your points as a standard or full round action in the same round?

[Kael Vonrik]

O.o i think i just found a spell that gets completely and utterly broken by sculpt spell... do i have this right? Legion of Sentinels PHB II page 116, it's original size is 10x10 creating 4, but sculpt spell would allow you to create 4 10x10 blocks creating 16 or a 120 foot line creating a line of 24(edit NOT 120 of them...) of them...O_O; I mean i am pretty sure this is right because it works with spells like color spray and grease which have smaller areas and become larger with sculpt spell...


edit the extra stats that are in the mini spell description but not in the large...for some reason
“The swordsmen’s attacks are at a bonus equal to your caster level, they threaten critical hits on a 19 or 20, and they deal 1d8 points of slashing damage with a +1 bonus per three caster levels (max +5). They only make attacks of opportunity, and their weapon damage is slashing and is affected by damage reduction.”

[Fil kearney]

Technically, i think you may be right... but I think most DM's would instead have that 4x4 block broken into 4 single blocks.



*shrug*

[Fil kearney]

Oh yeah....

regarding recovery:

currently a standard recovery allows or both immediate and swift spells to be cast "the same round" as when you recover. AS soon as you have the points, you can use them. So you could theoretically cast a swift spell, recover the points, then blow them on an immediate action later the same round.

I quesion if perhaps the swift action should b used to recover along with the standard action kinda like the warblade... but at that point folks may as well always use daptive style. you only have a move action left over anyway. I am a bit concerned about spamming 5h leel quickedned spells at level 17+... but I don't want to remove the option. It's nice when really needed... even if it's REAL expensive.

Higher level playtesting shall reveal if this works or not.


I believe ther are a few feats out there that give folks acdess to a few spells per day or something. I'm thinking to allow those to grant unlimited access to 0 level spells. nice little perk that is in no way unbalancing. No official write up though.. just pondering.

[Kael Vonrik]

Well i know it is acceptible that grease is increased by it usually. It has the same dimensions as this spell originally but it gets increased to x4 in size also

[Fil kearney]

works for me

[Fil kearney]

flare is a spell very like gravemist. the spell is immediate, so it would be defined as "exigent"... though as a 0 level spell that doesn't matter.. it doesn't cost anything to use it.

graemist fatigues the target, and they recover after resting as per normal fatigue rules.
flare dazzles the target. the effect lasts a minute, but has already take effect. there is no maintenance. it is a instant effect that just takes tim to wear of.

This is consistent with rules so far, though I am really appreciating 4e's consistent mechanics. I never really considered how haphazard 3e spells were til going through this process.

but this system still holds consistent. A minus1 to hit, search and spot is a decent price for a standard action. I think it's balanced... we'll see if we run across more such spells at higher levels to consider.

Once you drop this cat, I'll do a full recap here of how it went, and we can discuss our impressions.
Thanks again for being involved, folks!

[Kael Vonrik]

Originally Posted by Fil kearney

Kael asks:

no save... all living critters get fatigued and taked6 cold per round.
This is a sustained spell.. typically a hybrid spell will have a big bad, or a little bad depending ont he save (subject to change after testing)
fatigue is a condition that requires 8 hours to recover from.
As previously determined, if the pell is dropped , the spell's effects end as well. Fatigue is NOT the spell effect.. the grave mist is the effect.... entering the mist causes fatigue. when the spell is dropped, the fatigue (and damge of course) remain.
This is kinda like the org of acid conjuration.. the conjuration creates the mundane acid, and thus can be hurled into the antimagic shell and cause damage to those within.
IF this were ray of fatigue... the effect is faigue. and thus dropping the sus would drop the fatigue.

Great question!

you classified it as Sustain here, i used it as sustain earlier in this combat sequence.

[Fil kearney]

ah!

The MIST has to be sustained.. the fatigue effect does not.

I thought I made that clear.

I can always be better

[Fil kearney]

I'll be giving my thoughts and encouraging discussion at the conclusion of any combat situation.
I want everyone who reads this to be welcome to give comment and observations. That includes lurkers as well.

1st fight:cat thing in the cave
http://www.rpgcrossing.com/showthrea...79#post3016579

This was a cr4 with an extra HD thrown on top.
This was effectively an animal intelligent with a territory issue. so tactics were pretty limited.. attack the nearest/most damaging threat and run if it got "too damgeous" .. but the thing got cornerd, and fatigued. pretty straightfoward.

squishy casters kept far away, so were not physically threatened, use of summoned stuff helped take the heat off the swordsage acting as a striker. Almotire is obviously optimized for AC, and at this level, is nigh-untouchable. so less damage was dealt to her than would otherwise been appropriate. The TCW has DR, so what damage was dalt to it was diffused effectively.

An encounter whose EL = party level SHOULD drain about 1/4 of the party daily resources... 1/4 hit points, spells, special abilities, and disposable gear.
The party has NO disposable ear worth mentioning... but Ala did fumble an attack, effectively disarming her self one round.
Deeg spells:
mage armor lvl 1 sus 1pt
shield lvl 1 sus 1pt
MS3 lvl 3 sus 5pt
kelgore lvl 2 sus 3pt
magic missle lvl 1 exg 3pt
seeking ray lvl 2 hyb 9pt
total 22 pt

Granth spells:
TCWarrior lvl 3 sus 5pt
fire shurikan lvl 2 exg 9pt
fire shurikan lvl 2 exg 9pt
total 23 pt

alamotire maneuvers:
cloak of deception lvl 2 boost 3pt
cloak of deception lvl 2 boost 3pt
total 6 pt

jethro spells:
flare 0 level 0pt
total 0pt

Both Deeg and Granth took a full round to recharge around round 4... total of 6 rounds were spent on this fight.
a 5th level wizard has 3 2 1 1st 2nd 3rd spells.
a 6th lvl sorceror has 6 5 3 1st 2nd 3rd spells
a swordsage of any level would have to spend a full round to refresh any boost or maneuver.

ala hasn't realy broken loose yet, nor has jethro.. so maybe next time.
but the arcane casters-- granth has exhausted the 3rd and 2nd level spells for the say as a wizard (plus the extra fly spell to get there)
Deeg cast 3 fly spells to get there for the team
but he also spent 3 1st, 2 2nd, 1 3rd level spells oin the fight.. his full wad as a 5th wizard

So they have spent significantly more than just a 4th of their wad for the day.... but it still took 6 rounds to finish off this oponent. what would normallly put the casters out of the game for the rest of the day is still fine. and they didn't really outperform alamotire here... she did the majority of damage.
This is due to the fact taht they have unlimited resources. if they actually would have the normal allotment of spells per daqy, I don't htink they would have so liberaly used spells... they would be spent for the day with more pootential threats.. this would have left them with nothin to do significant quite a few of the rounds.
We are seeing a LOT more spell use than the game ssumes to be used.. we'll see how this affects future balance.


others' feedback?

oops!
I"m having a bit of a conflict... I've mentioned things like blindness and baleful polymorph NOT being permanent unless xp is invested... but i'm saying that the effect of the fatigue of mist is "permanent" until proper rest... this is inconsistent, and I need to resolve it.


The easiest solution is to allow baleful poly and bliness to work as normal.. permanent as a exg effect. but this can be abusable as a spammed spell. making castes virutally limitless in turning armis into chckesns etc with no limit.

The other option is difficult... placing a limit on ALL spells that if the target strays from the limit of the spell range, the effect drops.


I think option #1 is better, easier to maintain, and requires zero modifications. this also makes casters MUCH more powerful in society.