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  #226  
Old 06-05-2020, 09:49 PM
Dieuoffire Dieuoffire is offline
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Btccg: Just noticed a few things

1 that is not the stats you PMed me.

2: This is a big one:
Tauric:
"...The template can be added to any Small or Medium-size corporeal humanoid..."
Anthropomorphic:
"The creature’s type is monstrous humanoid."

I am sorry to see this last minute but these templates specifically cannot be used together monstrous humanoids are a separate type entirely it is not a subtype; you might as well be trying to add dragon. I am going to have to hit full stop. I HATE to have to do this right before closing apps, if you can please try again, if not I am sorry to have seen this so late in the process.
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  #227  
Old 06-05-2020, 10:23 PM
btccg btccg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieuoffire View Post
2: This is a big one:
Tauric:
"...The template can be added to any Small or Medium-size corporeal humanoid..."
Anthropomorphic:
"The creature’s type is monstrous humanoid."
1. It is just the placement of the Warbeast template on the tauric build - I left it with the base animal creature instead of the base humanoid which resulted in the CR4, 1 extra RHD and the +3STR/CON. i can switch it back if you want. The CR becomes 3, only 5 RHD and it gains +2 WIS on the base humanoid instead of the +3STR/CON on the base creature. The only other change was the base humanoid was based on an anthro-brown bear for the minor bump (1 step) in natural attack damage (everything else is exactly the same as black bear).

2. i believe you are incorrect. As per Savage Species, page 133, under the description for creating a Tauric creature: " The template can be added to added to any corporeal humanoid or monstrous humanoid of Small or Medium-size (referred to hereafter as the base humanoid)..."

Last edited by btccg; 06-05-2020 at 10:31 PM.
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  #228  
Old 06-05-2020, 11:21 PM
Dieuoffire Dieuoffire is offline
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Ahh, I was looking in MM 2 at the original template and you are using savage species.

so to that point ....
"When you find a disagreement between two [Dungeons and Dragons] rules sources, unless an official errata file says otherwise, the primary source is correct.... Exceptions to the rule will be called out specifically. " -Wizards Errata


The original template is correct unless it was errata'ed to be different or specifically called out; which this template has not been.

Sorry but officially the original is correct (and I must say I agree on this one, adding in monstrous humanoid is way too powerful.)
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  #229  
Old 06-05-2020, 11:25 PM
Ermine Ermine is online now
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Just be a smart bear?
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  #230  
Old 06-05-2020, 11:33 PM
btccg btccg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieuoffire View Post
Ahh, I was looking in MM 2 at the original template and you are using savage species.

so to that point ....
"When you find a disagreement between two [Dungeons and Dragons] rules sources, unless an official errata file says otherwise, the primary source is correct.... Exceptions to the rule will be called out specifically. " -Wizards Errata


The original template is correct unless it was errata'ed to be different or specifically called out; which this template has not been.

Sorry but officially the original is correct (and I must say I agree on this one, adding in monstrous humanoid is way too powerful.)
Sorry - didn't notice that difference when I looked at both books originally - my bad. i was trying to stay away from the Pathfinder Manimal, but it looks like that will work best for the concept now as the anthropo-animal is just hooped using CR. I will fix the app.

Last edited by btccg; 06-05-2020 at 11:36 PM.
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  #231  
Old 06-05-2020, 11:41 PM
Dieuoffire Dieuoffire is offline
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@btccg: NP, D&D has a TON of Rules. it is insane, but I supposed they need them because of all the books and sources they have. It is kind of Crazy. the Primary Source Rule is long and I only put part of it in above. It goes through contractions in: text vs tables, source vs. source, primary for EACH subject (phb, dmg, mm1 vs 2 vs 3).

I get it, but I just remember the main rule: HAVE FUN! after than it all is just suggestions on how they think fair should be (because people like fair). Again hoping to see you put in something interesting to join.
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  #232  
Old 06-05-2020, 11:48 PM
btccg btccg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieuoffire View Post
@btccg: NP, D&D has a TON of Rules. it is insane, but I supposed they need them because of all the books and sources they have. It is kind of Crazy. the Primary Source Rule is long and I only put part of it in above. It goes through contractions in: text vs tables, source vs. source, primary for EACH subject (phb, dmg, mm1 vs 2 vs 3).

I get it, but I just remember the main rule: HAVE FUN! after than it all is just suggestions on how they think fair should be (because people like fair). Again hoping to see you put in something interesting to join.
I just changed it from tauric to using the Pathfinder Manimal template, which you already said was okay to use. App is fixed - didn't actually change much (just -1HD, -1 feat and change Fort save from good to poor).
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  #233  
Old 06-05-2020, 11:49 PM
Dieuoffire Dieuoffire is offline
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btccg: you can do anthropomorphic but it just doesn't work with tauric. (neither does manimal, both are monstrous.)
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  #234  
Old 06-05-2020, 11:54 PM
btccg btccg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieuoffire View Post
btccg: you can do anthropomorphic but it just doesn't work with tauric. (neither does manimal, both are monstrous.)
I removed tauric completely - just using the Manimal template

Understood - the problem with anthropomorphic is how the conversion works from the animal: it would end up at 2HD, CR 4 and zero feats; so it doesnt work great when using CR instead of LA.

Last edited by btccg; 06-06-2020 at 12:09 AM.
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  #235  
Old 06-06-2020, 12:26 AM
Dieuoffire Dieuoffire is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieuoffire View Post
...it is not too far outside of bounds.
I think if you drop magebred it would be close enough. (Magebred was never meant to be used for PCs and it is seriously unbalanced for them.)
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  #236  
Old 06-06-2020, 08:00 AM
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It's only unbalanced if we're not all magebred.
Magebread. Mmmm.

Dorn's appearance needs to be updated. It still describes him as being like a centaur.

Last edited by Ermine; 06-06-2020 at 10:27 AM.
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  #237  
Old 06-06-2020, 01:03 PM
Dieuoffire Dieuoffire is offline
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I am happy to say that I was looking for 4-6 and we have had 6 apply

Ilod, Crimson – M dwarf Wizard
Claudine, Orichulum – F Human (turning Succubus) Paladin
Caelynn, Ermine – F Human Totemist/Incarnate
Arandiel, Smeowlin – F Spellwarped, Elf Mystic Ranger
Kirk Bodnar, Arkerpay – M Generic fighter
Dorn, btccg – manimal Warbear (Assuming you update the character) (Decided not too)

I am ready to begin immediately.

here

Last edited by Dieuoffire; 06-06-2020 at 03:26 PM.
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  #238  
Old 06-06-2020, 01:37 PM
Dieuoffire Dieuoffire is offline
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I think I need to update the rules CR or total HD for monsters. That way btccg could have played his Idea. At total HD I think it would have been fine for 7CR.
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  #239  
Old 06-06-2020, 02:36 PM
btccg btccg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieuoffire View Post
I think I need to update the rules CR or total HD for monsters. That way btccg could have played his Idea. At total HD I think it would have been fine for 7CR.
Sorry, I ran out of time and couldn't stay awake any longer last night to try to make it workable. Have fun with the group you have!

I think the issue is using CR for monster PCs in 3.5. This may work fine for PF but does not work so great for 3.5 IMHO. CR is always going to be lower than the ECL (HD + LA) of a monster which makes them so much more powerful at lower levels, and LA is intended to be the balancing factor in 3.5 (and there are rules for calculating LA). Using the LA, for example, Dorn as the tauric build (black bear animal/anthro black bear; if it was allowed of course) originally presented would have been ECL10 (5 RHD + 5 LA for tauric (+2 base humanoid +3 tauric template) and would have had 10 levels of monster before he could take a class level; using CR he ended up much more powerful and could take class levels very early.

Last edited by btccg; 06-06-2020 at 02:38 PM.
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  #240  
Old 06-06-2020, 02:46 PM
Dieuoffire Dieuoffire is offline
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yes but
Dorn as a 10monster/10druid would be way behind a druid 20.
Dorn as a 7monster/13 druid would have been much closer.
Dorn as a 10monster 10 fighter would have been about as good as a 20 fighter. But I again think fighter is a bit weak.
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