[Mechanics] Competition rules and rules queries

[Wynamoinen]

If you have any rules questions, you can make them here. If your question would involve spoilers of the events in-game (or if you want to keep your concerns away from the prying eyes of other applicants), please put your question under a secret tag, and direct the question at your GM (or one of the GMs of this game forum).

General rules for Outplay 2019 Multiple applications: We shall have none of that. Please apply to only one system. Reusing Characters: : You may use characters that were created for other competitions or games. Just make sure they fit the character creation rules of this competition. Post edits: In all role-play rounds, you may only edit your post in the hour after its initial post. Posts edited after this window will not be considered by the judges, and may not be granted award points. In the application round, zero, you may edit your application as much as you want until the round ends. Dice rolls: All game dice are to be rolled in your game post, labelled and using inum. The proper format to do that is: [dice=label]inum 1d20[/dice] Any editing of these tags will result in a big red box invalidating your rolls. (This includes editing the label, so make sure you do that first!) Please make the roll as near as possible to the place in your post where the rolled action takes place. Player vs Player Conflict: PvP combat may be an option at some point in this competition. When it is, the GM will make it clear. Otherwise, it will not be allowed. In-character disagreements are acceptable, but in most circumstances deliberately acting in a way intended to stop another character from surviving/succeeding will be heavily penalized. Post Rate During role play rounds (rounds one through four), GM will be updating once a day, every day except for the last day of the round. We expect successful players to post once per GM update. Scoring: The Outplay champion for 2019 will be the player who survives until the last round with the greatest number of treasure points. The judges will have a set allotment of treasure points that they can hand out at their discretion. Most treasure points will be granted for successful play (that is, the majority of treasure points are not discretionary). This means playing your character (their class, skills, equipment, and personality) wisely, and contributing to the YES, that means that good rolls will be rewarded. A savvy player will choose actions that play to their character's strengths, and their role in the party.attainment of the goals of the challenges put before you. Round 0 will also grant treasure points. These will come from the discretion of the judges and the outcome of a public (anonymous) vote over the (anonymous) applications. Good applications matter on RPGX! Elimination structure: This is a single-elimination tournament, but the elimination structure will allow more players than in the past to continue to the next round. Round 0: Up to 16 players from each game system will be allowed to play. If there are fewer than 16 applicants for a game system, all applications that satisfy the application rules will be invited to participate. Round 1: 4 players will be eliminated from each game system after round 1, for a maximum of 12 per system advancing to round 2. Round 2: 6 players will be eliminated from each game system after round 2, for a maximum of 6 per system advancing to round 3. Round 3: 3 players will be eliminated from each game system after round 3, for a maximum of 3 per system advancing to round 4. Round 4: Only one shall be invited to join the Square of Nine. Competition timeline Round 0 (applications) open: Friday June 7th to Friday June 28th at 6pm EST Round 0 judging: Friday June 28 to Friday July 5 Adjustments to characters finalized: Saturday July 6 and 7 Round 1 play: Monday July 8 - July 14 Round 1 Judging: July 15 - July 20 Round 2 play: Monday July 22 - July 28 Round 2 Judging: July 29 - Aug 3 Round 3 play: Monday Aug 5 - 11 Round 3 Judging: Aug 12-Aug 17 Round 4 play: Monday Aug 19 - Aug 25 Round 4 Judging: Aug 26 - Sept 1 Winner declared by US Labor Day, Monday Sept 2

[Squeak]

This post is reserved for FAQ.

We will include questions and answers that players are asking for the tournament. Please be sure to include whether you are asking about Pathfinder or 5E with any questions.
GENERAL

Where are the previous years archived?

Here is the directory. I'd recommend looking back several years, the format was considerably different last year in particular.

Does the 1000 word limit include BB coded quotes from Arch-mage Rostamoinen missive if they are weaved into the roleplay sample?

There is a MAXIMUM length of 1000 words, this includes any text you attempt to hide in tt tags or with images.

However it does not include words used in BB code such as color, size, or font. Generally the judges will copy and paste all the text into a google doc/word doc to check word count.

Originally Posted by RainyDayNinja

Does the limit on "one-use items" include consumables with multiple charges, such as Necklace of Fireballs or Gem of Brightness?

As wands are not considered one use items, neither shall multi use wondrous items.

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PATHFINDER

If chose Ultimate Equipment as my +1 book, can I get a Rime Metamagic Rod, which mimicks the Rime Spell metamagic feat from Ultimate Magic, even if I can't get access to the latter?

No, while the specific costs are given the specific effects are not. It would be unfair to let certain items utilize multiple books while others are totally restricted.

- Do one-use-items include special/magical arrows/bolts/other ammunition?

Yes. Ammunition will be counted as a consumable item in the same quantities that are listed in the PH (10 crossbow bolts, 20 arrows, etc).

- What about services from NPC’s that were used extensively last year?

NPC services will not be allowed this year.

Pathfinder: does synthesist summoner count as having an eidolon?

Yes a synthesist has an eidolon, "Spells such as banishment or dismissal work normally on the eidolon, but the synthesist is unaffected."

So in Pathfinder are the Unchained versions of CORE classes allowed?

No. You may only use the PH and one of these books. Advanced Class Guide, Advanced Players Guide, Ultimate Equipment or the Ultimate Magic guides. Pathfinder Unchained is not on that list.

Questions!

• Last year, hit points for levels 2+ were rolled. How do you want hit points determined this year?
• Traits are widely used but technically are an additional rules system; if the Advanced Player's Guide is our +1 source, may we select traits from that book?
• Obviously, any actual reprint changes and errata to the various sources apply. Do the official Paizo FAQ rulings? Sometimes those fairly radically change how mechanics work (e.g. allowing Eagle Shaman Druids to work, disallowing double cackle for witches, etc.). If so, is that answer different for things like Oracles casting spiritual weapon, where the official FAQ itself says it isn't official ("...it is a perfectly reasonable house rule...")?
• EDIT: If we select text (of whatever sort) from an approved book, and that text has an more recent printing in another book not on the approved list with altered text, which version should we use? For example, something that was printed in APG but then reprinted with slight changes in Ultimate Combat.

Use max hit points at first level and roll each level after that (rolls are to be in your character application post).

No traits, otherwise you get a free feat for just selecting a book.

If it is an official Paizo FAQ, it is in bounds.

Houserule: "Wodine is perfectly unreasonable and it is safe to assume he will rule against anything that needs to be houseruled." Per the given example, if you don't want your spiritual weapon to suck, don't dump wisdom.

EDIT: Similar to an FAQ if a book is updated, use the most up to date information.

Errata 1.1 If you select the Nobility Domain, in place of leadership you receive the Persuasive feat. If you would receive the feat Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat, you receive Spell Focus instead. As a cleric, if your deity’s favored weapon is unarmed strike you receive Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. If you receive a bonded object, only items listed in Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook or your additional source are available. If you select a bonded object that is magical, ie Ring of Invisibility, you must pay the full price at character creation for that item, ie 20,000 gp. Alchemist's Brew Potion class ability is replaced with the Extra Bombs feat. You may not select any item crafting feat. The Fetish hex replaces Craft Wondrous Item with Spell Focus. Witches may not select the cauldron hex. Starting gold is 33,000 and no more than 16,500 may be spent on any one item. For enchanted weapons and armor (+1, +2, etc), you must pay for both the base mundane price PLUS the price of the magical bonus. All items must be purchased at full price and no item creation feats may be used. No item may be used prior to the start of the game. For example, if you wish to copy a scroll into your spellbook you must follow the normal rules to do so after play has been initiated. Items must be purchased at full value. You can’t buy broken weapons or armor or partially charged wands, rods, or staves. Ammunition must be purchased in full lots (typically 10, 20 or 50).

Are Summoners outright banned, or just not allowed to make use of any class feature relating to or of the eidolon?

IE: Could a Master Summoner who focuses on their SLA still be allowed so long as their Eidolon is treated as being nonexistent?

Eidolons are banned, summoners are not.

So you are no longer allowed to designate magic items as your bonded object? And what if you select Ultimate Equipment as your +1?

Errata updated; If you receive a bonded object, only items listed in Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook or your additional source are available. If you select a bonded object that is magical, ie Ring of Invisibility, you must pay the full price at character creation for that item, ie 20,000 gp.

Why was Ultimate Combat taken out of the selection list?

Because then people would want to be Samurai, Ninja, and worst of all Gunslingers. And then other people would invariably complain about how OP gunslingers are, etc and so forth ad nauseum.

“Previous rulings” came after I stated that it only made sense 5e was going to be treated the same as PF. My bad, should have realized the inequality would span the entire contest and not just specific areas

You have come to the wrong contest if you are worried about inequality between Pathfinder and 5E. They are completely different systems and as such, are being separated until the very last encounter. When we reach that point, petty things like abilities will not matter in the eyes of the judges (ie. me).

The best player is going to win, not the best optimizer. We are making the rules ‘vanilla’ on purpose, specifically to avoid a pun-pun winning the contest. We have also built our challenges in a way that will help all character classes be useful, These rules are in place specifically to avoid over-optimizing your PC.

“Playing” consists not only being prepared for whatever come at you, but also writing style, ingenuity and how you interact with both the scenario and others. As a judge, I will frown on any soul-less, over optimized PC’s.

While I’m here can traits be selected if the feat is taken for them? Since that was the “worry” about their unbalancing nature.

Yes, if you take the Advanced Player Guide as your +1, the Additional Trait is available,

Is it acceptable to use one race mechanically to represent/role play another race?

For example using a half orc stat block to represent a orc, orog or ogre.

Fluff like that is not only allowed, but encouraged. Just be crystal clear on your character sheet that the race has been re-skinned.

Originally Posted by DAquilina

Can my character start with a disease? Like, mechanically.

You may not start with any diseased from a mechanics standpoint. You may start with any many fluff disease as you wish, and of course may contract diseases normally once player beings.

As long as I use the info from the Core Rule Book (specifically here) to make something out of a special material, does that count as Core Rule Book, even if the item in question (such as a mithral chain shirt) is specifically named in a different source that I'm not using?

A mithral chain shirt is a very common item made from special material (even the Baggins' had one) and if you follow the rules for Mithral from the CRB you get the same item for the same price. As long as you follow what is laid out in the CRB + your additional resource + any relevant Paizo erratas, you should be fine.

The infamous "masterwork tool" entry in the CRB. Any judicial guidance here other than "use our best judgment and expect the Hand of Wodine to smite us, lo, unto the seventh generation, for stupidity therein"?

I am unaware of any infamous masterwork tool entries but that doesn't mean Wodine won't smite you.

EDIT: Also, are we our own ally, generally speaking? There are some effects for which that's explicitly excluded (bard Inspire Competence). In the 3.5 PHB (p 304) there was specific text to that end: "In most cases, references to 'allies' include yourself", but the PF CRB omits that text. The editors at d20pfsrd included a note that stated: "You count as your own ally unless otherwise stated or if doing so would make no sense or be impossible. Thus, 'your allies' almost always means the same as 'you and your allies'." But to the best of my knowledge, there's nothing official that defines "ally" as either including or excluding the character themselves.

The d20pfsrd note is quoted on Paizo's FAQ and is the closet thing there is to an official ruling, so we will abide by the FAQ as much as it should have made it into an Errata.

EDIT 2: Barring the cost limitations on single use items (and in general), are there restrictions on the caster level of consumable items (such as scrolls or potions)?

As long as it does not violate any of the other rules, then yes items may be purchased at a higher caster level. Be sure to denote this clearly for the judges.

For PF shapeshifters, how are the animals/monsters/undead that are available determined?

Edit: to clarify, any PC that changes it’s shape not any specific class.

In the interest of remaining true to the core rule book, we will be limiting shape shifting to things found within the Bestiary 1. Additionally as when shapeshifting or polymorphing (for example) you become an average creature with which you need to be familiar with. While you can theoretically tweak the appearance within reason, (say being a scarlet macaw instead of a hyacinth macaw) we will be disallowing templates. It wouldn’t make sense to be able to somehow concoct a macaw with an 18 strength value, while changing the color is seemingly innocuous.

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For PF, other than the book limits, are there limits on summoning spells. Like I know you can’t ritual summon an eidolon for that unlimited duration pet, but what about the summon monster ability and conjuration (summoning) spells?

Eidolon's are not allowed in Outplay, this includes via summoning spells.
You may not start play with any pets or npc's outside of a companion or a familiar.
Summon Monster spells are limited to Beastiary 1

Errata 1.2 Rules that are highlighted as "Optional" or "Variant" rules are not allowed in Outplay. Hero Points, including Hero Points granted by feats or other methods, are not allowed.

If I wanted to start the game with an item hidden somewhere on my character, can I roll Slight of Hand now to hide it? Or do you wish that to happen only in-game when everything starts?

All rolls (aside from HP) that are relevant to the game should be made in-game.

Is it two traits with a drawback?

Traits and Drawbacks are not included in Outplay.

For scrolls, normally it requires two steps to be able to use them. Can the deciphering step be assumed complete as long as your character can use read magic? Otherwise using any scroll requires two rounds in outplay.

Note that deciphering scrolls ahead of time is explicitly called out as normal when using scrolls.

Yes, you start out knowing what the contents of the scroll you own are - in the same way that all of the magic items you possess have been properly identified. However, if there is a check required to use a scroll, you will need to make that in game with the normal chance of success or failure.

As long as they contain only items from the Core Books is it ok to use the equipment kits for easier bookkeeping? Even if the source for the kit is not the chosen extra book? (If the price for the kit differs from the price of the individual items put together, then it's obviously a no, but they aren't are they?)

No please buy the 'kits' piecemeal, or à la carte. There are actually some very large discrepancies, especially in weight for some of the even the 'core' kits. For example, the druid kit costs 3s and 6c less than piecemeal, but weighs almost forty pounds less!

Additionally for Pathfinder, if Advanced Player's Guide is our +1, can we use the alternate favored class bonuses?

From the same book, alternate racial traits?

Yes and yes but keep in mind that a gnome who trades out gnome magic for an alternate racial trait does not qualify for abilities that augment or modify gnome magic. Maintain consistency.

In Pf can magic ammunition like 'Sleep Arrow' be purchased as a 'Sleep Bolt' or 'Sleep Bullet' (Sling) instead?

For the sake of consistency, you must purchase the items as is.

5E

Originally Posted by Azure Nokori

5e Hit points after level 1: Roll, if lower than average then take average, or take roll as is?

You take the roll. No average.

Crossbow expert feat + Fighter's extra attack + dual wielding hand crossbows means three ranged attacks per round?

Yes.

Originally Posted by Cereal Nommer

PHB + 1: (XGtE, VGtM, or SCAG) doesn't seem to include DMG, but it's implied that we can use it for outfitting our characters. If we use equipment from the DMG does that count as our +1?

DMG (since it is the core rule system) does NOT count as your +1 for the purpose of magic item purposes. Any other book DOES count as +1, if you take spells or items from them.

Originally Posted by Silk

If I wanted to start the game with an item hidden somewhere on my character, can I roll Slight of Hand now to hide it? Or do you wish that to happen only in-game when everything starts?

All rolls (aside from HP) that are relevant to the game should be made in-game.

Originally Posted by oztk

What, precisely, is a "consumable magic item" in 5e? (...) Elemental Gems and Keoghtom's Ointment seem the obvious candidates for border cases.

(...) it [is] a fine line between balancing the outsize power of consumables (even some that definitely are 'meant' to be 'consumable') in a short campaign, vs. being so cheesy it's not fun / annoys the judges.

We will treat single-use items as consumables, and items with multiple available uses as non-consumable for the purpose of this contest. This is similar to the existing rule about ammunition: a bundle of ammo is treated as "non-consumable". So in your particular edge cases, that would make an elemental gem consumable and Keoghtom's Ointment non-consumable. That means (most) potions and scrolls are consumable, as you point out, but wands and staves with a re-charge would never be consumable.

Pathfinder has much more room for abuse of consumable single-use items than 5e does, which is why there are many more explicit rules limiting their use in the PF bracket than the 5e bracket. But I want to be clear: we take the same dim view to mechanics cheese in both systems to an equal extent. Historically, we've just had to rein in 5e a lot less, because of the base nature of the system. But I have no intention of applying a double standard. If someone is abusing 5e rules and items in a way that is forbidden in PF, I will default to applying the same spirit of the PF rules to 5e as well.

Originally Posted by ParzivalFair

5e: To be perfectly clear, we can only buy magic items from the DMG or Xanathar's Guide? No other published source?

You may buy your magic items from the DMG, and from your +1 rulebook. The +1 rulebook must be a book of rules published by the Wizards of the Coast. So no 3rd party rulebooks. And no taking content from WotC campaign books (I know there are magic items in Storm Kings Thunder and Out of the Abyss, etc - those are not allowed unless they are published in a rulebook). It's possible there's a magic item in Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (or whatever) that I'm forgetting, in which case, that would be allowed, if that's your +1 rulebook. But mostly, yes, I believe the +1 rule means you're getting magic items from either the DMG or Xanthar's.

[Blackfyre]

Oh boy, it’s that time of the year again.

A few Pathfinder questions:
- Do one-use-items include special/magical arrows/bolts/other ammunition? Yes. Ammunition will be counted as a consumable item in the same quantities that are listed in the PH (10 crossbow bolts, 20 arrows, etc).
- What about services from NPC’s that were used extensively last year? NPC services will not be allowed this year.

[DAquilina]

Pathfinder: does synthesist summoner count as having an eidolon?

Yes a synthesist has an eidolon, "Spells such as banishment or dismissal work normally on the eidolon, but the synthesist is unaffected."

[OneDarkness]

So in Pathfinder are the Unchained versions of CORE classes allowed?

No. You may only use the PH and one of these books. Advanced Class Guide, Advanced Players Guide, Ultimate Equipment or the Ultimate Magic guides. Pathfinder Unchained is not on that list.

[Antipode]

Questions! I have them, yes. Everything herein applies to the PF competition. It might apply to the 5E one, too, but I don't 5E, so I wouldn't really know.

• Last year, hit points for levels 2+ were rolled. How do you want hit points determined this year? Pleasedontberolled, pleasedontberolled...
• Traits are widely used but technically are an additional rules system; if the Advanced Player's Guide is our +1 source, may we select traits from that book?
• Obviously, any actual reprint changes and errata to the various sources apply. Do the official Paizo FAQ rulings? Sometimes those fairly radically change how mechanics work (e.g. allowing Eagle Shaman Druids to work, disallowing double cackle for witches, etc.). If so, is that answer different for things like Oracles casting spiritual weapon, where the official FAQ itself says it isn't official ("...it is a perfectly reasonable house rule...")?
• EDIT: If we select text (of whatever sort) from an approved book, and that text has an more recent printing in another book not on the approved list with altered text, which version should we use? For example, something that was printed in APG but then reprinted with slight changes in Ultimate Combat.

Use max hit points at first level and roll each level after that (rolls are to be in your character application post).

No traits, otherwise you get a free feat for just selecting a book.

If it is an official Paizo FAQ, it is in bounds.

Houserule: "Wodine is perfectly unreasonable and it is safe to assume he will rule against anything that needs to be houseruled." Per the given example, if you don't want your spiritual weapon to suck, don't dump wisdom.

EDIT: Similar to an FAQ if a book is updated, use the most up to date information.

[Yuul]

Perhaps a stupid question, but I have a built in need to be certain about things.

So, to clarify, we have access to the PH and one(and only one), of the books mentioned afterwards? Correct

[Yuul]

Are Summoners outright banned, or just not allowed to make use of any class feature relating to or of the eidolon?

IE: Could a Master Summoner who focuses on their SLA still be allowed so long as their Eidolon is treated as being nonexistent?

Are Wizards allowed to make use of their free scribe scroll for discounted scrolls within their limited use item budget?

If Not, is the PFS ruling of trading it out for spell focus in effect?

All crafting feats have been replaced and all items must be purchased at full purchase, see Errata.

[Meschie]

Question: I am planning to play an Arcanist(prepared caster). Can I use some of my wealth to purchase scrolls that go straight into my spellbook and DON'T count against the 3000gp onetime use item limit?

EDIT: I saw the errata. Prepared casters can purchase scrolls and scribe them AFTER play starts. Otherwise, they start play with only their 2 spells known/level scribed to their book.

Moved to rules chat. Please keep all discussion of rules here, and reserve the applications thread ONLY for applications

[Scimmy]

Can you buy less than full wands? (Pathfinder) No - See Rules Errata.

[Azure Nokori]

5e Hit points after level 1: Roll, if lower than average then take average, or take roll as is? You take what you rolled, regardless of what you rolled.

[Yuul]

Are Summoners outright banned, or just not allowed to make use of any class feature relating to or of the eidolon?

IE: Could a Master Summoner who focuses on their SLA still be allowed so long as their Eidolon is treated as being nonexistent?

The above was part of my questions earlier, re-inquiring just in case it got missed.

Eidolons are banned summoners are not.

[Scimmy]

“Chapter 6 of the core rulebook” isn't really specific to those that are using online tools to sort through information. If you have specific limits it’s best to spell them out.

Moved to rules chat. Please keep all discussion of rules here, and reserve the applications thread ONLY for applications

Chapter six is the equipment chapter. If it is equipment from the core rulebook, that's the chapter it is in.

[Meschie]

<confused>

The online information I'm using, d20pfsrd, tells you what book the class/feat/what-have-you comes out of at the bottom of the page. I don't know if Archives of Nethys does the same.

Moved to rules chat. Please keep all discussion of rules here, and reserve the applications thread ONLY for applications

[DAquilina]

Archives of Nethys gives pages numbers as well, I believe. They'te doing a great job being the official resource imho

Moved to rules chat. Please keep all discussion of rules here, and reserve the applications thread ONLY for applications

EDIT: Sorry boss, didn't realise where I posted